Are Turntables instruments?

[BFM_LËÕ]

Click me!
i cant explain this stuff i understand it but when i try and tell any it come out as BLA!

[BFM_Edison]

Still, how can you say that there are limits to how far a self-taught musician can progress or that they have to have technical flaws? There are many people who are called musicians that also have many technical flaws nor are the greatest and can be out-played by some who are self-taught.

Also, I was about to mention that it's very likely that there is theory to turntables, but because it's much newer than most instruments and far far less traditional, it hasn't been worked out as much. Leo beat me to it with an example though

Ironically, the arguments against it made me end up learning further towards it being an instrument.

[BFM_Slim]

No 

[Marty]

As I said to start with, there are various people who are self-taught, like Hendrix or Jimmy Page, who knew more about Theory than they could actually explain. If you analyse Hendrix, you can see various ideas which have a name in Musical Theory, but which he wouldn't be able to name it- he just understood how music worked.

[GAV]

After watchin the video i have to say that i agree with leo its an intstrument that makes noise just like any othe instrument...just needs a skilled person to use it

[BFM_Edison]

As I said to start with, there are various people who are self-taught, like Hendrix or Jimmy Page, who knew more about Theory than they could actually explain. If you analyse Hendrix, you can see various ideas which have a name in Musical Theory, but which he wouldn't be able to name it- he just understood how music worked.

You realize that you're speaking in favor of my argument, which was counter to an argument that labeled it as being not an instrument. So you just helped in argument against it not being an instrument Just because the people who do it don't know how to put the theory into words does not mean that there is no theory.

[Goalie]

Hmm...good point. However, a drummer still needs knowledge of rhythms, syncopation, and other rhythmic musical theory, which you don't need for turntables. Ask a drummer what the difference is between 6/8 and 3/4 is and they'll be able to tell you - a disc jockey probably couldn't. [Incidentally, the difference is that 6/8 is counted ONE two three ONE two three, whereas 3/4 is counted ONE & TWO & THREE]

I count 6/8 as One Two.  If need be, I'll count it as one-two-three-one-two-three, but it makes more sense to make that bar 3/4 if you're counting each eighth note.  [/sidenote]

Plus you're starting to get into profiling.  You cannot say that a drummer or disk jockey would know that difference; it all depends on how he/she was taught.  While a person may know this theory, does that mean that they can apply it?  With a disk jockey, you don't really need to apply it, as the music speaks for itself, and you just manipulate it from there.  A drummer should obviously know where the downbeat is and create his music from there.  Again like you said, a person may not know what to call it, but the principles are there.  This has happened to me many times where I cannot teach or explain what I just did.  Nevertheless, I know what it is.

So instead of saying 'this person doesn't know what this is', you should say that "That person does not need to know this in order to be a disk jockey/musician/conductor/salesperson/broker/etc."

[»Rüßík'§« ®]

in my opinion as long as it makes sound and has a steady beat its an instrament

[Marty]

I just thought of a new reason why turntables aren't instruments.

Any instrument - piano to guitar, Moog Synthesiser to Computer - can create an entirely original melody from scratch. A turntable cannot do this - it can only play existing melodies, or make a new melody from existing melodies, and therefore cannot make a wholly new melody.

Yeah.

[BFM_Kiwi]

Synthesisers can only make melodies from existing (sampled) notes.  So not original.  Does that make them also not instruments?

Is there a definition of musical instrument that says it must be able to produce wholly original notes?

[·WídgêT·]

Where's FlipSide when you need him? Being experienced in this stuff I'd like to hear his insight on this

[Marty]

Synthesisers can only make melodies from existing (sampled) notes.  So not original.  Does that make them also not instruments?

Is there a definition of musical instrument that says it must be able to produce wholly original notes?

An electronic keyboard can also only create notes from samples. But the point is that it, like the synthesiser, can create an entirely new melody, unlike the turntables.

[BFM_Kiwi]

Define melody 

I'm not a big fan of the stuff, but I'm not sure you can say that they don't create original melodies. 

Not in the classical music theory sense, but a series of notes or sounds put together in some rhythmic fashion

scratch scratch...

[BFM_dStruct]

Yes.

[BFM_LËÕ]

I just thought of a new reason why turntables aren't instruments.

Any instrument - piano to guitar, Moog Synthesiser to Computer - can create an entirely original melody from scratch. A turntable cannot do this - it can only play existing melodies, or make a new melody from existing melodies, and therefore cannot make a wholly new melody.

Yeah.

is a collage not art? just because you are not making the brush strokes dose that make it a picture and NOT art ?
its the same with beatjugling you are taking snippets from other songs putting them together and making a new one

Just because it dosent make music in the same way as a guitar Dose Not meen it isnt making music.