BFMracing

General Category => Tech Support and Chat => Frequently Asked Questions => Topic started by: MrMxyzptlk on July 31, 2008, 10:39:05 PM

Title: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on July 31, 2008, 10:39:05 PM: [At some point I'll add stuff about what to check on your computer BEFORE going through this next stuff, but for now, seeing that I've posted this info 4 times in less than a month.... ::) ]

Once you've assured that your computer's Network Connection settings are correct, but you're still having networking problems, but BEFORE you start tweaking things or un/installing stuff on your computer!: be sure to reset all your network devices and confirm that the problem still exists.

Network device shutdown sequence:
[Note: "power down" will often involve unplugging the device. The safest method to do this is to unplug the power connection AT THE DEVICE, not at the wall!]

0) Power down all computers connected to the inter-network.
1) Power down all hubs/switches connected to the router device.
2) Power down router device.
3) Power down modem device.

Wait a full minute....

0) Power ON modem device.
Wait a full minute.
1) Power ON router device.
Wait a full minute.
2) Power ON all hubs/switches connected to the router device.
3) Power ON all computers connected to the inter-network.
Title: Re: Network Problems? READ ME!
Post by: Tåndêm on August 03, 2008, 10:25:37 PM: Also, as Mxy says

Quote from: MrMxyzptlk
All bets are off on wireless
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on March 13, 2009, 12:34:26 PM: Some more info on exactly WHY "all bets are off" with wireless:

What "All Bets Are Off" means that It Is Not Possible to debug wireless network problems, period.

There are simply too many undetectable ways for it to mess up.

And yes, it can "start happening all of a sudden." For example, if someone else within range (as far away as 300-500') sets up a new wireless router on the same channel as yours, or switches their existing one to that same channel.

The only way that I know to debug such situations is to switch to using a wired connection and see if - over time - you can definitely tell that it's BETTER when running wired.

Of course, that still doesn't tell you WHAT'S WRONG with your wireless!... ::)
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on August 10, 2009, 09:17:56 PM: Quote from: MrMxyzptlk on August 10, 2009, 11:18:40 AM
Quote from: -db-Vinci on August 10, 2009, 07:29:48 AM
Wireless is rubbish... I'm still (in)famous for my lag/warp. :siderofl:

Got it cabeled for ages now, and I never warp anymore. ;D

OOoOOOOO!!

A living testimonial to my oft-stated phrase:

"All bets are off on wireless!"

Can I quote you in my thread about that (http://www.bfmracing.net/forums/index.php?topic=19442.0), Vinci?!? :winkgrin:

Quote from: -db-Vinci on August 10, 2009, 02:23:37 PM
Quote from: MrMxyzptlk on August 10, 2009, 11:18:40 AM

A living testimonial to my oft-stated phrase:

"All bets are off on wireless!"

Can I quote you in my thread about that (http://www.bfmracing.net/forums/index.php?topic=19442.0), Vinci?!? :winkgrin:

Lol, sure.. :)

SEE?!?!
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: HLN Rockhpc on April 12, 2011, 02:12:33 AM: Eh... why not

*bump*

I also wanted to toss in a question with my bump: what could mess up a wireless connection? Obviously, having another wireless router nearby broadcasing on the same channel could mess it up (as you mentioned, Mxy), but what else could mess it up, from what you've seen?

I have a wireless network at my home so the information would be appreciated. When I have troubles, I pretty much do what you say in this thread, but with the wireless turned off at the router (temporarily for troubleshooting purposes). Also, I stick to more of a 35-second kind of thing. =]

Erm... it would also help to know what channel the other wireless networks in the area are broadcasting on. If you search on your laptop or something, does it show the channel too? What about on protected networks? I can't remember off hand, but it seems like that would certainly help pick out an unused channel to use.
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: Lucky on April 12, 2011, 09:35:43 AM: Quote from: RØÇKÐ on April 12, 2011, 02:12:33 AM
what could mess up a wireless connection?

Aerial vehicles flying/hovering over your connection
Pests chewing an imperative cord
Another network on your frequency
Microwave
Storms/Weather
ISP
Power outage
Broken router
Broken modem
Plus a million others
All bets are off as Mxy says
Etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: HLN Rockhpc on April 12, 2011, 12:17:21 PM: Quote from: 404Lucky on April 12, 2011, 09:35:43 AM
Quote from: RØÇKÐ on April 12, 2011, 02:12:33 AM
what could mess up a wireless connection?

Aerial vehicles flying/hovering over your connection
Microwave
ISP
Storms/Weather
Power outage
Broken router
Broken modem
Pests chewing an imperative cord

I was meaning wireless-specific, not including the normal wired stuff..... MICROWAVE? Oo cool....
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: Lucky on April 12, 2011, 12:20:46 PM: Quote from: RØÇKÐ on April 12, 2011, 12:17:21 PM
I was meaning wireless-specific, not including the normal wired stuff..... MICROWAVE? Oo cool....

Quote from: MrMxyzptlk on March 13, 2009, 12:34:26 PM

Some more info on exactly WHY "all bets are off" with wireless:

What "All Bets Are Off" means that It Is Not Possible to debug wireless network problems, period.

There are simply too many undetectable ways for it to mess up.

And yes, it can "start happening all of a sudden." For example, if someone else within range (as far away as 300-500') sets up a new wireless router on the same channel as yours, or switches their existing one to that same channel.

The only way that I know to debug such situations is to switch to using a wired connection and see if - over time - you can definitely tell that it's BETTER when running wired.

Of course, that still doesn't tell you WHAT'S WRONG with your wireless!... ::)
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: HLN Rockhpc on April 12, 2011, 01:31:48 PM: I guess my question is pretty much answered. Thanks ~~(BFM_)~~Lucky! =]
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on April 12, 2011, 06:32:17 PM: Besides the usual "interference" things you'd obviously think about - shared channel, microwave ovens, "SMART"meters!, and other RF transmission sources - there are some things that you might not ever think of, such as:

- Having the WLAN device TOO CLOSE to the receiver! (They should be AT LEAST 2m apart, 4 or more IS BETTER! :o )

- ANYONE within 100m using a SATELLITE DISH.

- Sunspots/ambient ionic sources.

- Poorly/non-grounded electronic devices on the same circuit panel.

- FLUORESCENT LIGHTS

- Garage door openers

- CB & Ham radio users

- Overhead/nearby air traffic

.

.

.

I should add one new bit of info that I forgot to include in the original post:

Look through the WLAN documentation and figure out how to DISABLE 802.11 a & b .
[If your WLAN device does not support 802.11 g or n, then ignore all this: You're stuck with what you've got.... ::) :-\ ]

They are long-since out of date, and your WLAN device will try to "fall back" to use them when it's having connection problems. If you're "on the edge" of such a problem the device will CONSTANTLY CYCLE BACK AND FORTH trying to get a better connection, ending up doing more HARM than GOOD.

In fact, if you KNOW that you only connect through one of "g" or "n", then see if you can disable ALL the others and just force it to use the one that you actually connect with.
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: a victim on May 01, 2011, 07:35:29 AM: Quote from: RØÇKÐ on April 12, 2011, 02:12:33 AM

Erm... it would also help to know what channel the other wireless networks in the area are broadcasting on. If you search on your laptop or something, does it show the channel too? What about on protected networks? I can't remember off hand, but it seems like that would certainly help pick out an unused channel to use.

There's a freeware utility called NetStumbler which will show all wireless SSIDs in the vicinity, and also what channel they are on at that time. It only works with XP, though, but on the wikipedia page there are links for alternate versions that work with Windows 7 and Vista.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetStumbler

If you have linux, and wireless, then you can run

sudo iwlist eth1 scan

from a command line to see what channels and encryption are being used.
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on May 01, 2011, 04:50:26 PM: Quote from: a victim on May 01, 2011, 07:35:29 AM
Quote from: RØÇKÐ on April 12, 2011, 02:12:33 AM

Erm... it would also help to know what channel the other wireless networks in the area are broadcasting on. If you search on your laptop or something, does it show the channel too? What about on protected networks? I can't remember off hand, but it seems like that would certainly help pick out an unused channel to use.

There's a freeware utility called NetStumbler which will show all wireless SSIDs in the vicinity, and also what channel they are on at that time. It only works with XP, though, but on the wikipedia page there are links for alternate versions that work with Windows 7 and Vista.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetStumbler

If you have linux, and wireless, then you can run

sudo iwlist eth1 scan

from a command line to see what channels and encryption are being used.

While the programs described above CAN be used to detect specific WLAN device information soas to avoid interference, they are often 1) not warranted, and 2) used to GATHER information FROM OTHERS soas to cause trouble/harm. (Yes they are tools - and tools similar to those mentioned - that are used BY IT PROFESSIONALS to setup and maintain their networks, but have little to no use for the "lay" computer-user.)

In fact, you can do just as well by simply hopping your WLAN's channel by two (starting with 2), using them for a while or running various network tests on them, and then leaving the WLAN on a channel that "seems better."

Hence I would, in general, NOT recommend their use. (But: If you consider yourself a "hack," then by all means, go for it!)
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: OBOLeader on May 01, 2011, 04:59:28 PM: Ok question...

First off, i do NOT use wireless...now then..

For the past few months, i have been having connection problems with xbox live and my computer. Ive tried resetting both the router and modem, ive tried the FULL shutdown as said in OP, and even had time warner come out and look at it. They said nothing was wrong and left me with crappy connection. Any ideas what my be going on?
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: HLN Rockhpc on May 01, 2011, 06:01:52 PM: Quote from: Ghost_Wolf on May 01, 2011, 04:59:28 PM
Ok question...

First off, i do NOT use wireless...now then..

For the past few months, i have been having connection problems with xbox live and my computer. Ive tried resetting both the router and modem, ive tried the FULL shutdown as said in OP, and even had time warner come out and look at it. They said nothing was wrong and left me with crappy connection. Any ideas what my be going on?

Whoever answers this will need more information from you about it. What exactly is the problem?

How is the network constructed? Modem and router?

Are you not getting the full bandwidth that you're paying for? Is that the sort of problem? Did you test it? Mxy seems to like this speed tester and I like it as well: http://www.dslreports.com/stest

Do you get randomly disconnected from the internet on a daily basis? Is that the sort of problem?
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: OBOLeader on May 01, 2011, 07:03:48 PM: OK the problem is that I get randomly get kicked off the internet for no reason at all. On a daily basis. We have both a modem and router. All but one computer is wired and thats my dads laptop.

Also, I just went to the speedtest site and found a time warner one. My download speed is 18.78Mbs, Upload is 0.73Mbs. Any more info needed just ask
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on May 02, 2011, 01:37:48 AM: Quote from: Ghost_Wolf on May 01, 2011, 04:59:28 PM
Ok question...

First off, i do NOT use wireless...now then..

For the past few months, i have been having connection problems with xbox live and my computer. Ive tried resetting both the router and modem, ive tried the FULL shutdown as said in OP, and even had time warner come out and look at it. They said nothing was wrong and left me with crappy connection. Any ideas what my be going on?

You should've started a thread specific to your problem in the Tech Support board, not here in one of the FAQs....
Title: Re: Network Problems? RESET IT!
Post by: HLN Rockhpc on September 15, 2011, 01:10:23 AM: This problem no longer exists. I'm only seeking thoughts/wisdom. Thanks for reading if you choose to proceed.

It's been months since my change from DHCP to all-static in my house and I can honestly say that I'm absolutely convinced every network connectivity problem I've previously had while I was set up for DHCP was because of my Linksys router's DHCP. I've had Wi-Fi enabled the whole time: before and after. My brother's Wii gets net only from the wireless. It doesn't seem to make a difference.

The problem I used to have is that I would lose Internet once in a while at pretty close to the same time. Sometimes it would be 1am-2am. Others it might be 7pm. It seems to me that it revolves around about a 6 hour time frame. I notice that the DHCP on the router is set for 6 hour lease by default. Oh, and when it went out, it was out for good. It might have happened for an hour. Back then, I wasn't so educated with computer technology, but I did know how to test if I actually[/] had internet by just plugging directly into the modem - and it would give me net. I plug into the router once again and nope... nothing.

Does this seem to make sense or am I not making any sense? I can only go from my recollection since I never have the problem anymore. I also don't have that router anymore, but it was also a $40-or-so Linksys.

I also want to mention that, back then, I followed the procedure at the beginning of this thread and it didn't always work.

I realize that it probably can't be narrowed down to 1 final conclusion and I can't really give any more information than what I've given here, but I'm just looking for thoughts. So... thoughts?