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General Category => Tech Support and Chat => Topic started by: Fraggle on December 24, 2008, 10:02:06 AM

Title: noisy hdd = worried owner ((Fixed))
Post by: Fraggle on December 24, 2008, 10:02:06 AM: Hey everyone. I HAVE VISTA! (I'm so sorry!)
Over the last month or so, I have noticed a buzzing noise coming from my tower. I believe it is the primary hard disk spinning as the noise does not occur when the hdd is not being accessed (as shown by the led on the front)

Quite apart from the constant irritation of the noise, I am now concerned as to the continued good health of my drive.

Is it time to buy a new drive and make an image of my primary drive? I have many photos of my children which I do not want to lose, not to mention a few gigabytes of music and video which will be laborious to replace. (I hate copying cds over to the computer). (plus I don't really want to have to purchase a new copy of windows at several hundred pounds...)

Also, am I right in thinking you can image your primary, swap disks and carry on as normal? will the operating system still work?

ARGH!

Kind regards,
Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: carl on December 24, 2008, 10:06:18 AM: i got a noisy HDD it makes like a buzzing noise and sometimes a screeching noise. to fix this all i did was give my computer a hit on the side and all fixed.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Ediseye on December 24, 2008, 10:51:20 AM: Ok, let's get right to it.

DO NOT HIT YOUR COMPUTER AS CARL DOES

This could cause the head on the hard drive to come in contact with the magnetic disk, causing even more damage that can't be reversed.

As far as the clicking or buzzing sound goes, it could be a couple things. The hard drive could be going on the downward slope, like I've seen in the past, or it could just be a buzzing. I've got a 2002 Western Digital drive here that buzzes non-stop. I actually use it s a backup along with a external drive as well. But I also used to have a 2004 Western Digital drive that made a clicking noise for a couple days, and crashed on me while playing CoD2 the next day. Lost everything. So, it could be either.

Are you guaranteed that its the hard drive? If its just buzzing, it could be your graphics card (Newer NVIDIA cards sometime have this problem) or it could be you power supply unit (PSU) which sometimes buzzes due to the coils touching each other. [Though these aren't all too common. It is probably your hard drive]

If it is in fact your hard drive, I would personally make a backup of all the contents such as your pictures, movies, documents, etc. onto another drive for the time being; just to be safe.

Also, I'd run a Scan disk to repair any bad sectors that may be currently on the drive. Make sure that you select BOTH boxes in the Check disk window.When it asks to do it on the next restart, say yes. Restart your computer and let it run. It may take some time. (You can get to checkdsk by going to START --> MY COMPUTER --> RIGHT CLICK ON YOUR PRIMARY DRIVE --> PROPERTIES --> TOOLS TAB --> ERROR-CHECKING)
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 24, 2008, 11:12:19 AM: ok Ediseye, some more specific info......

the buzzing sounds more like a vibrating noise and it's not constant. an analogy would be the sound a brake pad makes on a buckled cycle wheel. it rubs then stops rubbing as the wheel rotates. likewise, the noise will occur in a similar rotary pattern. also it sounds more like a spinning disk working hard ( a sound i haven't heard since my old 486 home computer. lol. pre-cdrom, pre-pentium, pre-historic :LOL:)
what a difference 11 years makes eh?

anyway, thx ed. I'll assume the drive is going the same way as our economy and invest in a new one. I'll also run the scandisk utility.

Do I have the right idea about backing up the whole disk, operating system included? will it work?

Thx again,
Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: carl on December 24, 2008, 11:22:28 AM: Quote from: BFM_Ediseye on December 24, 2008, 10:51:20 AM
Ok, let's get right to it.

DO NOT HIT YOUR COMPUTER AS CARL DOES
hahahahahah. LOL

on a more serious note, Ediseye is right. your hard drive may be going down hill. it my old computer it would make a grinding noise like rubbing two stones together. it eventual started saying you don't have any hard drive space left. i would do the disk check.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Ediseye on December 24, 2008, 11:41:22 AM: I'd go ahead and backup then. Not take any chances if it actually sounds like a rotary, where it only happens every other spot.

Also, backing up the whole operating system, as far as I know, would not work. You would need to backup your important files, such as My Documents and such. Then on the new hard drive, reinstall Windows, update it and what not, and put your files back on. I don't think a backup of the "WINDOWS" folder would work. Never tried it though, so I'm not completely sure.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Filla on December 24, 2008, 12:18:40 PM: Did you clean out the Fans, maybe to much dust is over heating it.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 24, 2008, 01:24:50 PM: Yeah, I cleaned all the dust out a coupla weeks ago, just after it started being noisy.

Re-installing windows will be an expensive task methinks. Computers here are not supplied with windows disks for fear of piracy. so the only option I have if my primary fails is to purchase a new license at approximately £120.

I've found a 500gb sata drive for £20 so what I really need to know now is, will there be any way of 'cloning' my primary drive onto the larger new drive and then being able to run windows from the clone.

I can find out as soon as I get the drive but I need to know if there is a utility which can be downloaded for this task.

Thanks for all the helpful answers so far, you've all been great!

Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Ediseye on December 24, 2008, 06:41:07 PM: I've searched a bit more into the matter, as I have never copied a Windows operating system over to another drive, and it seems like it is possible.

One software package that I found is Acronis True Image (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/). It seems like it can do a exact backup of everything on the drive, even the operating system. You would probably need to remove the password on Windows to make sure everything works out, but again, I haven't used this program, so I'm not completely sure.

Maybe someone else has worked with True Image (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/)?
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: BFM_Kiwi on December 24, 2008, 08:12:13 PM: I've used Acronis at work, it's very good.

As for the hard drive, if it's just vibrating, then open the case, turn on the computer and see if you can dampen the vibration with something. I've stuck bits of cardboard to stop that sort of thing.

Also make sure it's not the CD drive, those make a lot of vibration noise.

It very well may be going downhill, but I had a noisy drive that I "fixed" by just dampening the vibration and it worked for a year or so until I got rid of the comp.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on December 24, 2008, 10:22:21 PM: If your hard drive is more than three years old you should probably replace it anyway, even if it's NOT the hard drive making the sound! ::)

And you're not going to "back up" your drive to another, new one, you're going to "image" it.

"Imaging" makes a complete, exact copy of the disk as-is.

Acronis True Image is, indeed one tool to do this. I don't know much about that particular product - aside from the fact that it WILL do the job nicely, as I use Partition Magic or Ghost for imaging disks. (Which I do A LOT, and as my preferred method of doing "full" backups, BTW....)

One thing to note about "cloning" your (sole) hard drive onto a new one when running Windows: It is best to do it AT LEAST SIX MONTHS AFTER ANY OTHER HARDWARE MODIFICATIONS TO YOUR SYSTEM.

Why?!?

Because Windoze keeps tabs on what hardware changes on your system and when, and if too much changes it will flag your system as another, totally different system and assume that you're "stealing" a copy of WIndows by putting it on a different computer. ::) If a certain number of changes to the hardware it tracks happen within the same six months, it flags it for reactivation. NBD, but a pain, nonetheless.

I'm absolutely, positively sure that Windoze ALWAYS tracks your "C" partition's hard drive details WRT this, so when you "clone & swap" your hard drive it MIGHT say "Your hardware has changed" and simply ask you to reactivate on line.

But if you've changed too much stuff it will ask you to call them by phone in order to reactivate your OS.... (Again, NBD, just making you feel like a theif for doing something useful... to something that YOU OWN OUTRIGHT, is all....)

So purchase any of the three-mentioned programs to "image" your hard drive onto your new hard drive after you've: 1) Run Scandisk on all your exiting partitions, 2) Run Defrag on all your partitions AT LEAST THREE TIMES ON EACH (compact data makes the imaging go faster, you see....), and 3) followed the instructions for your imaging software to connect up the devices for imaging.

FYI: I recommend Partition Magic (PM) (http://www.symantec.com/norton/partitionmagic) to do this for One Big Reason: Once you've successfully moved everything over to the new, probably LARGER hard drive, you can use the partitioning tools to resize/adjust your EXISTING partitions as needed. PM is an excellent tool for managing your disk space/partitioning easily and reliably. Most other tools do not have partition-level management tools, only "total disk" stuff....
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Tåndêm on December 25, 2008, 12:48:23 PM: Is the HD sitting DIRECTLY (i.e. in the drive bay RIGHT THERE ABOVE) another one? I did that once and it ground very noisily. If that's the case, try moving it up a drive bay.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 25, 2008, 01:35:25 PM: Hi guys, Merry xmas and thx again for all your replies.

Firstly, Kiwi, It's definitely the hdd. there is rarely a disc in my cd/dvd rom drive and the noise occurs whenever the primary drive is accessed (like when the wife is watching telly whilst i'm on halo :siderofl:) and Tandem, There is already a drive bay separating my two drives. thanks for the suggestions though. I think I'll go ahead with a newer drive. I have space issues anyway so it's more beneficial in the long run.

Quote from: Fraggle on December 24, 2008, 10:02:06 AM

Is it time to buy a new drive and make an image of my primary drive?

Mxy, I thought I had the right idea but got the terms mixed up. It's always good to get confirmation/clarification though. Image the disk and then swap it over. sweet.
Thanks for the useful suggestions too. I would have never realised that cleaning up and de-fraggle-ing :LOL: the drive to be imaged is necessary (even though reading it on the post, it makes perfect sense). I am off to the beloved january sales early tomorrow morning to acquire my new drive and then I will commence the operation. I'm not due at work for another 2 days so there should be no interruptions.

Fortunately I have made no harware changes for about a year so no problems there either.

I do have another drive installed but it is older, slower and also full up. also, the primary is a sata drive and the secondary is an ide drive tagged onto the dvdrom's ide cable. It's purely excess storage for the many episodes of various tv series i download to watch after work. I presume this will not present any surprises for me?

In any case, Thank you all. It looks to be a happy xmas for me after all.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on December 25, 2008, 02:19:02 PM: That all looks and sounds good, Fraggle, but just an FYI: When you put an HDD device on the same IDE CABLE(/channel) as a CD/DVD drive device THE HDD CAN ONLY BE ACCESSED AT THE CD/DVD DRIVE'S FASTEST SPEED!

Not that this really matters for your set up: You're not doing intensive accesses to that channel's HDD, but I try to avoid mixing HDD devices with non-HDD device ON THE SAME IDE CHANNEL/CABLE whenever I can. Even if it means running another IDE cable to and using the second IDE channel on my mobo to do that.

NBD, just FYI!
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 25, 2008, 02:50:35 PM: lol. thx for the info. i was wondering why it was a bit slower than the primary. Like you say though, it's NBD. It's just long-term storage for rubbish that I don't need on a daily basis. Basically, I ripped the primary out of the old pc, hooked it up to the new one, copied over my crap, formatted it then copied the stuff back over. Total space used, about 50%. (it's full up now tho. haha)

Although I defrag regularly as a rule, It's difficult on a nearly-full drive so I'm going to keep about 8% of the new one free when it's in. I'll probably look at getting a new secondary of the same size in a couple of months too. that'll be a sata as well so all-in-all, I think that'll set me up for a coupla years.

Thx dude
Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: BFM_Kiwi on December 25, 2008, 02:54:56 PM: Be careful defragging, wouldn't want to lose you.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 25, 2008, 02:59:54 PM: ^^!

Don't worry Kiwi. You can't de-fraggle this fraggle!
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on December 25, 2008, 03:12:06 PM: Quote from: BFM_Kiwi on December 25, 2008, 02:54:56 PM

Be careful defragging, wouldn't want to lose you.

That's why I said to run scandisks FIRST. (And don't bother "cleaning up" the drives by removing old files and such, unless you have scads of stuff in that state....)
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 26, 2008, 11:29:02 AM: ok, you'll never believe i didn't make this up but......

The defrag program i use is called "defraggler"
:doh:
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Ediseye on December 26, 2008, 01:52:24 PM: Quote from: Fraggle on December 26, 2008, 11:29:02 AM
ok, you'll never believe i didn't make this up but......

The defrag program i use is called "defraggler"
:doh:

Rofl, it's what I use too. Compares with Jkdefrag, and it's free of course. Though i do test products for Raxco, who make PerfectDisk. And I have a bunch of software from them now, but it runs a couple background processes, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE NOT DEFRAGGING. Hate that stuff. ::)
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Tåndêm on December 26, 2008, 03:32:41 PM: I just hate background processes that don't do anything besides keep the program in memory. Those background processes might be actively defragging your drive as it gets fragged. I know Microsoft's payware defragger does that.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Ediseye on December 26, 2008, 04:00:27 PM: Quote from: Tåndêm on December 26, 2008, 03:32:41 PM
I just hate background processes that don't do anything besides keep the program in memory. Those background processes might be actively defragging your drive as it gets fragged. I know Microsoft's payware defragger does that.

It does do that, if you set it that way in PerfectDisk. But even when you tell it not to actively defragment your drive, it still runs one or two background processes.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 27, 2008, 02:38:12 AM: Ah! Processes. Now I'm glad that one came up because that's going to be my next venture into the wonderful world of speeding up my pc...

I'll be asking for help on that one before long methinks, but for now I must await my sata cable and power adapter from the online marketplace.

Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: BFM_Kiwi on December 27, 2008, 03:04:11 AM: Mxy....whoosh!
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 27, 2008, 04:15:22 AM: Quote from: BFM_Kiwi on December 27, 2008, 03:04:11 AM

Mxy....whoosh!

??
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 30, 2008, 02:22:45 PM: ok guys, new problem.

I have connected the new drive. now i have the following set-up.

primary IDE master = dvdrom (g:)
Primary IDE slave = 160gb Samsung hdd (e:)
Primary SATA master = 160gb Western Digital hdd (C:)
Primary SATA Slave = New Hitatchi 250gb hdd (?:)

The problem is this. Whilst the new drive shows up in the BIOS and on Vista's device manager, the darn thing refuses to show up anywhere else.

I assume I need to format it as it was factory-sealed. I cannot find it in the windows directory or in the command prompt to perform the format operation and I cannot find how to do it from the device manager.

Help?!?

Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: BFM_Kiwi on December 30, 2008, 03:36:43 PM: I think it's the same for XP and Vista. Go to Control Panel >> Administrative Tools >> Computer Management, then under Storage there is a Disk Management option.

Hopefully you see that drive and a status of unformatted or unknown or something.

I've only done this once for a 2nd drive I bought for all my music, photos, videos. I believe you just select the drive and format.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 30, 2008, 03:48:54 PM: :yesyes: :victory: :yesyes: :victory: :yesyes::victory: :yesyes:

:rockstar:YEAH BABY!! :rockstar:

:yesyes: :victory: :yesyes: :victory: :yesyes::victory: :yesyes:

I'm in Bizness!
Thx Kiwi
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 30, 2008, 05:54:42 PM: Thx very much everyone for your tips, assistance and comments. The migration to the new hard drive has now been completed without a hitch.

Love it!

Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on December 30, 2008, 11:46:39 PM: See? There's loads of helpful folks here to guide you along!

Anywho, on to One Last Thing:

What do you plan to do with your OLD DRIVE now?

If you're going to trash it, I suggest that you "clean and scribble" it first. (More on that IFF you're going to trash it. If you're NOT, then I suggest it be used for NON-vital information!)

BTW: What software did you use to do the "cloning?" (That matters for the possible "clean & scribble," you see....)
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 31, 2008, 01:12:10 AM: no worries abot data protection just yet Mxy, I've got it installed as overflow storage for tv programs and other easily replaced stuff.

The software I used was actually a 15-day trial of Acronis easy migrate. the whole thing took about 2 hours, including initialising and formatting the new drive.

I was really, really impressed.

Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on December 31, 2008, 11:53:56 AM: So easy that it's kinda scary, isn't it? :-\

But don't let that go to your head! ;D

Now you probably see why I just image drives to do my full backups, yes?
(It helps that the main drive in all my machines is in a drawer-type, removable tray, too, tho! ::) )
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 31, 2008, 12:56:05 PM: They say that pride comes before a fall....

I have a new problem ( as always)

My pc used to crash whilst playing Halo or sims2. the image on the screen would separate into staggered lines and I would have to restart manually....

Since the recent disk cloning operation, the system has had an alarming tendency to switch off completely.... alomost as if an invisible hand had unplugged the tower from the mains.

This is kinda iritating and I wanna make it stop. It improved momentarily after a scandsk was run, but it has done it a couple of times now this evening...

I have had a lot of help from you guys and I feel guilty asking for more, but wth.....

HELP?!?
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on December 31, 2008, 01:03:34 PM: OooooOOOO!

'Sounds like a hardware problem, and likely your video card (or audio "card" if you have one, which I doubt....)

3Qs:

1) When was the last time you cleaned INSIDE your computer?, and

2) What make/model video card do you have, and for how long?

3) Does this only happen after a long period of time having your machine on? I.e. It does NOT happen for a fair time after you boot it up "cold"....
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 31, 2008, 05:03:10 PM: Mxy, I have been thinking a hardware problem would be the most likely explanation... I haven't checked the connections yet as I haven't had time, but it's possible I knocked something whilst putting in the new hdd. Also, I have been thinking that with the extra drive, wires and stuff inside the case, It's possible that the machine is simply overheating.
Anyway, to answer your questions...

1) I have given the interior a spring clean and a dab of paint whilst I was faffing about with new hdd's this past week. I also washed the motherboard with plenty of soap and polished the heatsink with brass polish for that extra shine. It certainly 'looks' like it's brand new. :siderofl:

(not really, I just brushed away the dust and fluff...)

2) I have a Nvidia GEforce 7500 LE thingummy. Have had it for about 9 or 10 months now I think. My audio is run from the motherboard.

3) It's completely random. Happened 3 times in quick succession the other night. no sooner had I signed back onto vent, I was chucked off again. then I got about a day and a half out of it after doing the scandsk, then it happened about half hourly this evening.

Oooh, Fireworx... Happy new year everyone in the UK, Everyone in the us, You will have to wait a few more hours but happy new year anyway.
You aussies will probably have already gone to bed and be sleeping it off so happy new year for when you wake up.

Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on December 31, 2008, 06:51:27 PM: so, I have had another involuntary shutdown. Then, the shutdown repeated several times just as I cannected to the interweb.

I remembered seeing some conflicts in my device manager whils browsing the other day. Now, In Windows 95 and 98, you could just delete a conflicting device, then restart and it would re-install automatically, and (the best bit) it would work.

I do not want to do this with Vista. it seems to want to over-complicate things and I don't want to incur it's wrath.

I have a screenie below.

Help me Dr.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/3155248982_3f61d66e0a_b.jpg)
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Tåndêm on January 01, 2009, 06:42:27 PM: IRQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRQ) problems?

Never heard of them shutting your machine down, though.
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: MrMxyzptlk on January 01, 2009, 09:48:23 PM: Oh (yeah?), you're running Vista.... ::)

You aren't trying to run a 64-bit version of Vista, are you???

...Because the HUNDREDS of people reporting SCADS of problems with the Vista 64-bit versions ARE having all kinds of network-related problems with it (6TO4 and it's family of other loaded drivers....)
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on January 02, 2009, 06:01:12 AM: Fortunately, I am not one of those people who grab the latest'fad' thing as soon as it hits the shelves. I am running 32bit (thank you divinity)

But yeah, It's vista. ::)

Anyway, I am thinking of setting a system restore point and then trying to delete these conflicting drivers in the device manager... see if that does anything.
I have run Windows defender and come up with a trojan that installs malware, so I'm going to get a few different anti-spyware programs and run a few scans on each to see if anything else is detected.
Mxy, I saw in another post that you spoke about a low level rootkit scan? would it be worth a simple rootkit scan?

Also, I will run a full AVG virus scan overnight. (takes a few hours ;D)

Any other suggestions will be greatfully recieved.

I am moving my desk to the other side of the room this weekend, so I will also take the opportunity to check all the internal cables and connections.

IRQ looks interesting but I don't know if it's really relevant as I have no error reports. the thing just shuts off instantly. :bang:

I feel we're getting somewhere though, I have had a few hours of uninterrupted run-time today......

grrr
Fraggle
Title: Re: noisy hdd = worried owner
Post by: Fraggle on January 02, 2009, 01:01:09 PM: ~*Update*~

I deleted the conflicting system devices and logged on to post that there seemed to be no problems.........................#but it died again so I am posting this from work.

Next step is more anti-virus/spyware
:'(

~Edit.. It had been a loose cable inside. I found this out a few days after posting this but forgot to tell ya'll about it.

Thanks for all your help. You are all awesome!! :yesyes: