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Author Topic: Recruit Questions  (Read 2787 times)

Offline Akuma

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Recruit Questions
« on: January 13, 2010, 07:58:52 AM »
The administrators have told me that I was asking too many questions in the server, so I decided to make my own topic here on the forums for that.

It seems that this is only day 5 or 6 of my recruitment and it takes approximately 1 month before I gain the "Recruit" rank and Ventrilo access. Most clans I have seen (and joined) in the CTF servers required a 2 week trial period with small tags and a skill evaluation of some kind to be sure the recruit was good enough to be part of the group.  I was curious why BFM is forcing me to wait a whole month before I can even wear small tags and talk in Ventrilo.  I can understand how a questionable 13-year-old child would require that much time to be evaluated, but I tell the truth when I say that I am 19 years old (born on Cinco de Mayo 1990).

I realize I have only been racing for about a total of a month and a half now, but, since my recruitment, I really have been doing my best to be on as much as possible doing my best to help my team in the servers.  I even managed to realize a personal record of 87.17 for the Sidewinder map in the servers earlier.  I guess what I am getting at is that I would like to become a member of the very next scrimmage tournament if BFM feels I qualify for that.  Elvis mentioned that I should try out for it, and I really am excited to play in a bigger game such as that.  It sounds like a challenge and a lot of fun.  However, I do understand that BFM needs to first understand that I am a quality racer before I can wear big tags.  I would like to prove that I can "hang" with you guys.

My second question is whether or not I will have full access to the forums when I am a full "Member" rank.  I noticed for some of the threads that I do not have permission to view the content because it has been moved.  I would also like to someday see my recruitment comments, which the other racers write about me, as well as the results of my recruitment vote (when the hundred or so of you vote on whether or not I am good enough to get in.)  Actually, I jumped to a conclusion.  Is it a vote that decides my recruitment or does my Corporal decide?  Clearly, Elvis probably does not want to be bothered with so many recruits (it seems to me at least).  From what I can tell, it is fairly easy to get in BFM so long as the person is willing to wait through the validation period that takes over a month.

My last question is... well... I am a bit confused on how to actually administrate a server.  It seems like Elvis and everybody else I have spoken to does not want me to have any part in explaining rules to other guests.  I have read them twice, as well as the new rule about the "proper name" issue.  I hate to see people being banned by trivial and non-offensive behavior.  I sometimes feel I could persuade the guest rather than yelling at them, especially if they seem to be cooperative (although confused).  For instance, I honestly cannot see myself banning somebody because they had a name consisting of 1 letter and 1 number (that was non-offensive of course) and did nothing else wrong.  I do understand if BFM wants me to shut up and not use the chat, but as part of my recruitment it seems like BFM will NEED to know whether or not I can handle a delicate situation properly.  Again, it is your clan and the bunch of you have come to a consensus, but I need to at least understand the logic behind why things have become the way they are.  It seems this BFM forum was put together on July 15, 2007, since that is when the leader registered his account, so that makes BFM 30 months (2.5 years) old on Friday.  Clearly, I have a lot of catching up to do.

Oh yeah and I wanted to add a little suggestion.  I see BFM has made infinity a different weapons set with all-navs, so why not do the same thing for death island?  That map is dreadfully boring driving around in a very simple circle repetitively.  Usually someone else will comment about something to that effect as well.  I understand if some people like it regular-navs, but I personally think it would be interesting if we could drive in the opposite direction.

I am sorry I wrote so much, but I still do have more questions after those.  I feel like I have to ask questions to get information, since it is obvious that nobody is going to volunteer to take the noob through his baby steps.  =]

Rereading what I just said, it seems like this could potentially be viewed as offensive in itself since I seem to question the logic of the "decision makers" within your group.  Please understand I am only inquiring for information and not intentionally offending anybody.  After all, I am trying to join THIS clan and not a different one, therefore I must be fond of the individual members that constitute your group.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 12:10:01 PM by Akuma »


Offline BFM_Kiwi

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 12:10:44 PM »
Hey Akuma,

Thanks for bringing this to the forums - we do like to race as much as possible, so answering questions in the server isn't our first choice, better to do it here.

Firstly, we don't recruit based on your racing skill.   Your times on Sidewinder show you are working hard to improve, so that's a good sign.  But we are more interested in the person - are they a good sport, do they seem like someone we'd like to spend time with on vent, will they be patient and tolerant and treat guests with respect.  Those sorts of things.  That takes time to judge.   After you get vent, it usually takes another month to get tags.  Again we want to get to know the person better, and let them get used to the way things work.  Then we go through a month of training, which is fairly intense.  

After the training, the recruit (small bfm tags) gets their big tags.  That leaves room for someone on vent to get small tags and be trained.  And that leaves room for a PR like yourself to get vent.  So it's like an assembly line.

Yes we could speed things up, and we'd like to if we could, but we're after quality, not quantity.   So many people apply (we probably have 30 PRs at the moment) and we can only evaluate and race with so many at a time, it just takes time.

As for your second question, yes our forums have additional boards for members, and each of the ranks - corporals, sergeants and so on have their own boards to discuss things.  You can ask your corporal for a summary of your feedback.  

There is no "vote" per se.  All BFM members post feedback when they race with you, and we reach a sort of consensus.  Your corporal is there to answer questions, but it's not up to one person.  GAV and Speedy will review PR's feedback and consult with some other officers and come to a decision.  If you are respectful and patient, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

As for adminning servers, when you go through the training, we go in depth on all the rules and policies.  We discuss different situations and how to handle them.  Until you've gone through that training we don't want you to try to admin the server in any way.  I'll clarify that though.

* if there is a BFM admin in the server, then let them take care of things.  There is no need for you to try to help explain a rule or policy.  You may not fully understand the rules as well as the admin, and also some guests will take exception to another guest "adminning" like that

* if there is an admin, you may also point out things to the admin:  hey Kiwi, there is a sniper at blue base.   Don't warn the guest directly, we can do that.  There are a lot of reasons for that.  Again, Masterchief may not be happy with you telling him what to do.  If an admin warns him, it's more "official" and he knows the admins have noticed it and if he continues he may be headed for a kick from the server.   It also means you haven't stopped to type out stuff and you and your teammates can race and set a good example.  If all the guests stop to type and warn and try to explain stuff, no one is racing!

* if there is no admin, you can helpfully point out rules - hey Masterchief, pls don't snipe, it's not allowed.   Stuff like that.  I wouldn't worry about things like guest's names, unless they are offensive.  So don't worry about this new names policy.  Don't argue.  If they insist on sniping, try to xfire or go to another server to find an admin.  It's fine to helpfully point out something once, but after that drop it and just race.  And especially don't say things like they will get kicked or banned for it if they don't stop.  

In short, until you've got the tags and done the training, you are a guest.  You'd signalled your intention to want to join the clan, but you have a status the same as any other guest.  So we want you to race and have fun.  Once you have tags you will be adminning and no longer racing and having fun, so enjoy your time as a guest.

Ha, just kidding, we do have fun.  But guests do have it good.  They can race and not have to worry about all this stuff.  So just relax and have fun, and we'll see you on vent in the near future.

If you have any other questions, you can ask your corporal (if you have one - if not, you'll be assigned one soon).  Or any corporal.   GAV and Speedy are in charge of recruiting, so you can ask them. Slim, JANE, Exodus and myself oversee recruiting and training, so you can ask any of us.  Or you can make another post here if you think it's of general interest to other people

P.S.  I missed answering your question on Death Island.  I love that map on all navs.  But we have considered changing it and decided against it.  There are "contact" maps like Danger Canyon, Blood Gulch and Infinity (all navs), and then there are the circular maps like Death Island and Timberland.  I think we decided to keep Death Island and Timberland regular navs to provide some variety.  You can have a long map with lots of kills and deaths, and it can be a nice break to have an "easy" map where you get some laps and have some fun.  I think it's too short to be boring.  Infinity regular navs can be boring because it's a much bigger map.  


« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 03:36:12 PM by BFM_Kiwi »

Offline Akuma

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 02:37:22 PM »
I read your reply and that cleared a lot of things up.  I do not want to miss anything that was explained, so I will not add any new questions to the mix right now.  Thank you Kiwi.  =]


Offline Akuma

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 12:15:49 PM »
Colonel BFM_Darkƒyr, my previous Corporal, has just informed me I need to be assigned a new Corporal for my recruitment.  Would someone please do that for me and PM me who it is.  My recruitment process started on January 6, so I hope that still puts me on day 9 and I do not have to start all over again.  Thanks!  

(psst I would not mind BFM_MEELISA =])
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 01:51:10 PM by Akuma »


Offline BFM_Elvis

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 01:05:27 PM »
Akuma you assumed some things that arent correct and I wanted to make sure I clear those up so you arent disappointed in the future. First off BFM will be 5 years old in May. This is our 3rd forums set. We chose these forums because we can have adds that will help cover a little of the cost for BFM.

The timeline about gettings tags you posted is incorrect. You do not get vent in one month then get tags in another month. That just simply isnt true. The timeline is set to the minimum. So the earliest you can get vent is after one month. Many times it takes longer than that. After being on vent the quickest you can get small tags is one month after getting vent. I will say again that normally isnt the case. It normally takes longer to get small tags after getting on vent. It all depends on you after getting vent. On how you act and who you are on vent and how much you race.

you brought up about admining servers. The reason we dont want PRs to admin servers is because how you would do it now is not how you will do it after you go through admin training. All we need to see is that you are a guest that other BFMs would enjoy being on vent. We also need to see your not someone who has a quick temper and not someone who will use profanity in front of our young kids on vent. You mentioned your not a 13 year old kid etc. Well you have things backwards I think. We dont have many issues with profanity for 12 13 year old kids. Its the teenagers and adults that give us most of our profanity issues. So again you might conclude it is even harder to get on vent for you than a 12 year old. I hope that helps some.





Offline Akuma

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 01:53:01 PM »
I read your post Elvis.  I do not think you or any of the other BFMs neither have in the past nor will in the future see me use profanity in BFM servers.  I will keep that time line in mind - it seems that I have been rushing things a bit out of excitement.  I will continue racing as much as I can, which is no problem since I enjoy the BFM servers a great deal.  See you all on the tracks.

reminder/note:  I still need a Corporal.


Offline BFM_JANE

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 03:43:09 PM »

Regarding your Corporal:  Once everyone is shifted around to accommodate the changes in the recruiting department, you'll get a PM from your new Corporal. Until then, if you have any questions about your recruitment, you can send a PM to me and I'll take care of it.

Thanks Akuma.



Offline Akuma

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 09:24:37 PM »
Alright, thanks JANE!  This maybe is not quite a question for the officers, but how do I browse the forum anonymously while logged in?  I can browse anonymously as a guest, but inconveniently I would have to log in to post.  I cannot exactly think of why someone would browse the forum as "Hidden" unless they had something bad to hide about, but nevertheless I have been curious about how to do so.  I suppose they save 2 seconds of time (or however long it takes you to type your password) by having that feature.  I feel a bit stupid that I cannot figure this forum out.  Maybe I should have PM'd a forum moderator about it, but I figured I would just ask here since you all have been so quick about answering my noob questions here.  =]

edit:  Hydra PM'd me and there is no need to reply.  Thanks Hydra!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 09:32:31 PM by Akuma »


Offline Akuma

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2010, 10:50:57 AM »
What is the point of kicking a player?  The Halo "kick" system honestly sucks to some degree, since it does not put a time limit on how long a player is kicked for.  They can simply return in approximately 10 to 30 seconds and play in the server once again.  I feel a 5 to 60 minute ban would be a more appropriate "final warning" before permanently banning a player from the server for eternity.  That might allow the player to cool down and actually follow the rules instead of simply aggravating them and escalating the situation, causing BFM more harm than good overall.  If the administrators yell at the guest and then kick them from the server, it seems like that guest would not be having much fun at all.  Most guests do not seem to have the common sense to stay kicked after they have been kicked, so I was wondering why BFM does not implement the policy I stated above, to force rule-breakers to calm down and take a few deep breaths before trying to enjoy their game.  I am sure the high-ranking BFM offers who I presume wrote these policies have thoroughly thought through these policies, but there is always room for improvement.

Side question:  When I am a BFM administrator will I be able to practice this sort of 5 to 60 minute "temporary" ban myself?  It honestly seems like the best possible idea for me at the moment.  I feel after 5 years of BFM, you all probably have an extremely large (Ban) list of players who were not willing to put up with the strict rule system.  I will probably be the kind of admin who favors a large number of kicks and a temp ban before sending a guest to the graveyard.

[Edited out some example RCON commands ~Kiwi]
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 01:10:19 PM by BFM_Kiwi »


Offline BFM_Kiwi

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2010, 12:25:23 PM »
Akuma,

We do not like to ban people, temporarily or permanently.  When we have to ban, it is always a permanent ban.  We have a policy strictly forbidding using temp bans.

We would rather not have to even kick people.  We try to speak to them and get them to understand what they are doing wrong and correct it.  Usually a kick is to get their attention and let them know we are serious.  Most people respond to that and adjust their behaviour.  Some won't return, and yes, some will come back a bit angry.  If they get angry then we will often suggest they take a break to cool off.  And if we are about to permanently ban them, we generally make this clear to them.  So I don't feel they really need a temp ban as a signal that we're serious.  They will have been warned many times, and kicked a few, then given a final warning.  I think that should be enough.  If they do get banned, they can visit the forums, see what we're about, maybe read the rules, and ask to be unbanned.  A ban isn't always forever.  Often we ban to get someone to the forums for a discussion.

This works for us and I don't see us changing it.   I imagine these sorts of ideas have been kicked around over the past 5 years, and I'm confident that BFM have found that our current procedures work best for us.

There are issues with temp bans.  I don't think the person will know how long they're banned for, so may assume it's permanent.  That means they'll hop into another server or the forums to complain and asked to be unbanned when it's actually just temporary.  The temp bans will clutter up our ban lists with entries which makes it harder to maintain them.  We need to keep our procedures simple, as we have a lot of admins of all ages, and temp bans are added complication we just don't want to deal with.




« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 12:28:48 PM by BFM_Kiwi »

Offline BFM_Elvis

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 02:39:54 AM »
Akuma, your showing you dont understand how BFMs admin. I totally understand that. You will learn if you become a BFM in the future. Kicking is something we hate to do. But many times kicking someone is enough to get their attention and have them pay more attention to the rules. We could do as you said. We could even just never kick and go straight to ban. But that would be totally disrespectful to our guest. Many people who start to play race dont know our rules. They have played slayer or CTF etc. They dont expect others to just race. So they are new. They need to learn the game of race. So if we kick them and make them stay out longer or go straight to ban, what did we accomplish? We then get them to go to another sever because they didnt wish to wait and teach them and show them how much fun race can be if you follow the rules. They dont feel they did anything wrong. So if we kick someone and they can comeback in they can then ask WHY? We will tell them. Soon they start to listen and go read the rules. Even then they dont understand them all. So at some point they may even get kicked again. But they will understand and be willing to learn. At BFM we wish to never kick or ban someone. So if we can kick and teach or warn and teach that is our wish. It has proven to be a successful strategy in the past. We want all of our guest to have fun and to learn the rules. There are times when an admin including myself may make a mistake. Thankfully we dont ban them right away and we will listen to the guest when they comeback and then have to apologize. If we banned them they might just leave and figure we were jerks.

The ideals you are showing are those of a clan who will let you in by being a good player or by just sticking around a week or two. BFM is much more than that. We are a family. We care about how our guest are treated. Enough that we have kicked people out of BFM for being jerks to our guest. We arent your normal clan in normal games. Maybe learning that will be good for you. Everything you have seen out of a clan and expect to happen isnt what will happen with BFM. So maybe just drop what you know about other clans and just hang on for the ride. Maybe in time this will be an eye opener for you!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 02:43:10 AM by BFM_Elvis »





Offline Akuma

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 03:04:14 AM »
Alright Elvis that does make a lot of sense once it has been explained properly.  You do a very good job of that, which is probably why you have been able to lead this clan (with help from your friends) to about 100 members.

This is a stupid and unnecessary question, I admit.  I was wondering how many people (approximately) are banned from using the BFM Halo race servers?  I suspect it is an impressively large ban list.  I totally understand if BFM wishes to not reveal this information to an outsider.


Offline BFM_Elvis

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Re: Recruit Questions
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2010, 03:12:47 AM »
What? Never said we didnt want to post this in here. No reason to do so but never said that. Your once again assuming things that are incorrect. You also are assuming that we are happy to ban which gives us a big list. Honestly this is starting to look like you dont want in BFM at all but have a different agenda in mind. Either way im locking this thread. You sure are taking a lot of liberties for someone who isnt even a recruit yet!





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