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Author Topic: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)  (Read 7003 times)

Offline Fender

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Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« on: January 28, 2008, 07:29:26 AM »
Daigoro, I imagine you might be able to ring in on this, but any other Mac users out there I welcome your suggestions!

I followed Diagoro's tips for taking screenshots in-game.  It only kinda-works.  Here's what I do:
- For starters, I play Halo in a window
- To grab a screen shot, I use Shift-Function-4, spacebar, mouseclick (as detailed in Daigoro's instructions)
- This creates an image file on my desktop, sure enough...
- ... but the file shows a black screen!  I'll see the image of the window frame (it even says "Halo" at the top), but no picture in the screen. 

Seems like the photo grab is essentially working, but I can't figure out why it blanks the screen. 

Any suggestions, hints???

Thanks!  -FendrBendr
  

Offline AR~Archon

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 08:49:24 PM »
How does the full screen screenshot work?  (Command+shift+3)  Does it do the same thing?
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Offline BFM_Edison

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2008, 06:39:13 AM »
Using Command Shift 4 isn't a very good idea while playing in Halo, as it only takes a picture of your selection. Try Command Shift 3, and it should work.
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Offline Fender

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 03:49:23 PM »
Well, I've tried Cmd-Shift-3, but since I run two screens (my laptop screen and a second monitor), it takes a rather weird and large image file.  It does capture the Halo window, though, along with everything else I have open on my two desktops.

I was hoping Cmd-Shift-4 would work, because I play Halo in a window, so it made sense to me to take a screenshot of just that window, rather than both of the desktops simultaneously. Not sure if I'm explaining it very well...

The odd thing is, Cmd-Shift-4 works under normal conditions.  For example, I was able to take a pic of this window just fine.  It just seems to blank out the Halo window when I try to take a pic of that one. Not sure what's going on.  I guess a short-term solution would be to unplug the extra monitor when playing Halo. But that's kind of a pain...


  

Offline AR~Archon

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 08:32:49 PM »
Edison:  Cmd-Shift-4 followed by space lets you select a specific window to take a shot of.  It's nice if you want to exclude everything else when you take the shot rather than edit the picture later.

FendrBendr: To date I've used Cmd-Shift-3.  I also have 2 monitors, but I get 2 separate .png files on my desktop.  I just manually delete the one file and use an Automator script to crop the other one.  It sounds like you get one big file.  What format is that file?  IIRC, the default format in 10.3 was PDF.  Back when I ran 10.3, I used TinkerTool to change the default from PDF to PNG.  You could try that but I doubt it would make a difference.

I just tried Cmd-Shift-4 and it worked fine for me.  I got the full content of the Halo window.  Granted, I'm using OS X v10.4.

I'll think some more.  Maybe Daigoro has other thoughts.  :scrim:  ;D
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Offline Daigoro

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2008, 08:39:35 PM »
Nope, no other thoughts, but Archon what's the deal with your Automator script to crop the .png file -- how does it know the placement of the window?

Oh, I do have a thought after all. FendrBendr, is Halo in full-screen mode or windowed mode? Try doing it the other way.  OK, it's a half-baked thought, but a thought nonetheless.
Sincerely,
Daigoro

Offline AR~Archon

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 09:01:10 PM »
Hehe, I always run Halo in the same window size and place ;D   :LOL:  I run Halo at the largest window size that's still smaller than my monitor (it takes up almost the entire screen).  The window always opens in the same place.  I would run Halo full screen if it didn't take over the other screen and make it black.  I want to have the chat window(s) over on the other screen (in case I need it).  Or the BFM home page with handy server search (in case I need to find help).  Or iTunes.  You get the idea ;D

I tried Googling to see if I could find anything on the problem you describe.  I haven't quite found the right combination of search words/phrases to show me anything.  I did have another thought.  Ambrosia SW has a utility called SnapzPro.  It replaces the built-in screenshot functionality.  It can do movies, too.  I tried the demo and decided it wasn't for me, but you could try it and see if it works any better.  The interface isn't quite as nice for making quick screen shots.
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Offline Daigoro

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2008, 09:37:19 PM »
Also Fendr, open your System Preferences / Display and check whether you're running Millions of colors.
Sincerely,
Daigoro

Offline Fender

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2008, 10:00:04 PM »
Nope, no other thoughts, but Archon what's the deal with your Automator script to crop the .png file -- how does it know the placement of the window?

Oh, I do have a thought after all. FendrBendr, is Halo in full-screen mode or windowed mode? Try doing it the other way.  OK, it's a half-baked thought, but a thought nonetheless.

Like Archon, I run Halo in windowed mode, because if I run it full-screen it blanks out my second monitor (where I usually have the Vent window displayed).  I can do the screen grab with Cmd-Shift-3, but (to answer your earlier question, Archon) it creates a PDF, as you suspected.  I'm not familiar enough with the finer tinkerings of Macs to feel confident that I'd be able to switch the default from PDF to png... any step-by-step instructions? (if it's not too much work, that is)....  I tried taking the shot in PDF and then using Graphics Converter to save it in another format like jpeg or something, but it creates a really really small thumbnail file that, expanded, is all pixellated. Prolly the best bet is to switch the default as you suggest, if I can figure out how to do that.
  

Offline Fender

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2008, 10:02:44 PM »
Also Fendr, open your System Preferences / Display and check whether you're running Millions of colors.

Indeed, I am running Millions of colors on both monitors...
  

Offline AR~Archon

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2008, 11:07:48 PM »
I used a freeware program called TinkerTool.  When it opens, on the General tab there should be a section for "Screenshot file format".  If it doesn't work, you can just change it back to the system default.  You'll at least have to log out and back in for it to take effect, maybe even reboot.

EDIT: I just tried switching mine from default (PNG) to PDF, and I got two PDF files for cmd-shift-3.  For cmd-shift-4, I got a good Halo window (not blank).

EDIT 2: After looking closer at the TinkerTool web site, their feature list says they don't support changing the picture format on 10.3.   I'm confused, I was sure I did that.  _idk_  Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Sorry, man, I have no other ideas.  :???:
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 11:25:41 PM by Archon »
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Offline 'Medic

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2008, 07:06:46 AM »
I take a full screenshot and have modified my key for screenshots (in keyboard shortcuts, system preferences) to be alt+c. It saves it to my desktop as a .png file.

I play in a window too. I'm not, however using 2 monitors. This worked the same when I was on 10.3 (on my G5 iMac) as it does on my Intel MacBook with 10.4.11.

Fendr, I suggest doing a full screenshot but play without your 2nd monitor hooked up. You were complaining that it was lagging you anyway.

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Offline Fender

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 10:01:31 PM »
I take a full screenshot and have modified my key for screenshots (in keyboard shortcuts, system preferences) to be alt+c. It saves it to my desktop as a .png file.

I play in a window too. I'm not, however using 2 monitors. This worked the same when I was on 10.3 (on my G5 iMac) as it does on my Intel MacBook with 10.4.11.

Fendr, I suggest doing a full screenshot but play without your 2nd monitor hooked up. You were complaining that it was lagging you anyway.

-'Medic

I've done that in the past -- disconnect my second monitor before playing -- but it's kind of a pain in the butt to manually unplug the thing every time, especially if I'm just jumping in to play for a short burst of maps.  I mean, I'll resort to that if I have to, but I thought I'd first try to find some other way.  It SHOULD work: the thing that confuses me is that it only blanks the Halo window when I do Cmd-Shift-4. Using  Cmd-Shift-4 on other windows takes a perfect shot of the selected window. Also I get an OK shot of the Halo window using Cmd-Shift-3, but it's a lot of work to trim out the unwanted extra screen (because it creates a 2-page PDF file, one page for each monitor).

Then again, taking the full desktop shot with Cmd-Shift-3 also gets the date-and-time stamp on my upper tool bar, which can come in handy if I ever send in screenies for bad behavior reports.

Daigoro, any feedback on why "Millions of colors" setting is important?

Thanks everyone for continued interest and comments...  -FendrBendr

  

Offline Daigoro

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 11:47:24 PM »
In the past I've had games play black when there was a mismatch between the colour depth of the app and my monitor. So I was just checking that.

Here's an idea. Take a couple screenshots of your video settings (so you can restore them). Set everything to the following and see if your Cmd-Shift-4 screenshots start working. If so, play with your settings till you find the one that causes the problem.





Sincerely,
Daigoro

Offline AR~Archon

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Re: Screenshots for Mac (OS 10.3.9)
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2008, 06:41:41 PM »
I've been thinking about this some more.  It's probably worth trying the other ideas suggested, but I suspect you won't be able to make it work with the built-in window-only screenshot.  I'm thinking your best bet may be a 3rd party tool like SnapzPro.

Read on (if you dare ;D ) for a technical explanation of my reasoning.  Some of this I know with certainty, some I am speculating about based on other available information on the architecture of Mac OS X.  Be warned, though, it's technical.



Graphics cards have always allowed direct access to the screen buffer, stored in video RAM (VRAM) on the card.  The screen buffer represents what is currently being displayed on the screen.  Long ago (classic Mac OS, Windows 3.1), programs could write directly to VRAM to change the content of the screen.  That was important when system RAM was limited.  Programs could also read VRAM to get a copy of the entire screen image.  I suspect that Mac OS X uses this method when you press Cmd-Shift-3.  It doesn't matter how the data came onto the screen, just that it is there.

Now, the OS X window server (the program responsible for maintaining the contents of the screen) keeps a copy of graphics drawn to the screen.  It has since 10.0.  (Take a look in Activity Monitor and you'll see a process called WindowServer).  In fact, normal programs draw their window contents directly to that off-screen buffer (it's in main system RAM).  When they are done drawing, the window server takes the image for that window and composites it with every other window on the system to create the total screen picture.  By "normal" programs I mean basically anything that doesn't use OpenGL 3D graphics.  I'll get to the reason behind that in a moment.  There are big gains from a processing perspective and for graphical continuity to this approach.  The down side is it uses more system RAM.  I think Windows Vista does this now.

Given that, when you want to take a picture of just one window (Cmd-Shift-4), my guess is OS X just takes that separate buffer and writes it to a file.  It doesn't have to go all the way out to the video card to get it.  To see that work, try using Cmd-Shift-4 to get a screenshot of some window that is partially obscured by another window.  You'll get the entire window content, even the hidden parts.

Now for how OpenGL fits into this.  If I remember correctly, Apple made a big deal back when 10.4 came out about hardware-accelerated graphics.  The video card requirements also went up for 10.4.  I suspect that in 10.4, the window-specific "offscreen" buffers are were moved from system RAM to the graphics card's VRAM, at least in part.  It's my understanding that modern graphics cards have the ability to do all the 2D raster graphics work, in addition to the 3D work, so why not let the card do it?  In either case, if you store the window content (as textures?) on the card, you can have the card do all the compositing work to get the screen drawn.  Much faster that way.  So, for 3D game content (like Halo) I think the card just renders into the texture for that window.  That texture then gets composited normally when the screen is assembled.  So, when you do Cmd-Shift-4 on 10.4, it has to go out to the VRAM to get the window image, but it has the 3D content.

My guess is that, because this was touted as a big feature of 10.4, that 10.3 took a different approach.  My guess is that in 10.3, the Halo 3D content is kept entirely on the graphics card.  When the screen is updated, the window server composites all the stuff around it, and tells the graphics card where to render the 3D scene when it's assembled.  The card just does the OpenGL work and spits it out onto the screen.  The only way to get the full window image (3D content and all) into main memory to composite with everything else would be to have the card render to VRAM, copy from VRAM to main RAM, composite, then copy back to VRAM.  That would be very expensive when you're trying to do something like Halo, and could kill your frame rate.

The consequence of this approach is that, on 10.3, you get the empty window frame when you do Cmd-Shift-4.  Because the 3D content isn't part of the main-system-memory copy.  On 10.4, it goes out to the graphics card and gets the full image.

If you made it to the end... :o .  Hopefully my rambling made sense.  I was just a tad bored today ;D .



The above may be a consequence of your specific graphics card, but I kind of doubt it.  Different cards do have different capabilities, but I'm thinking OS X architecture here.  You could try replacing the card, but I would consider it a long shot.

As for the weird-shaped PDF containing both screens, that's almost certainly a design decision on Apple's part back in 10.3.  For whatever reason they decided to change it in 10.4 to create separate pictures for each screen.

At this point, I think your best bet would be a 3rd party tool.  Otherwise look into automation like AppleScripting.

Whew!
The minstrel boy to the war has gone...
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